So there's a new cover stirring up controversy on the interweb Occasional Superheroine blog, this time from Titans #5, a stand-alone story called "Date Night" that's due out in August.
Val took issue with the cover, comparing it to porn and generally seeming kind of disgusted by it.
Now, I am in no way going to attempt to defend Judd Winick as a writer, or some of his more ridiculous stories on Teen Titans Outsiders; I'm dealing solely with this image, which (spoiler alert) I happen to like. Mostly? Because it's hot.
I say as a matter of larger context that I understand -- don't always agree with, but understand -- why some female fans get upset about images where they feel like women are portrayed as sex objects. But even setting that debate aside, there's a whole rainbow of suggestive or sexual imagery out there, and it isn't all de facto demeaning to women. That's because sex is not de facto demeaning to women. Superhero comics haven't been for kids for some time now, so I don't see anything wrong with using this type of more adult imagery In a book for grown-ups.
Singling this particular cover out for criticism makes no sense to me, not least of all because, as a heterosexual woman, I would much rather see a picture of a male/female couple making it hot than a scantily-clad woman presented as the sole object of desire. This isn't the usual hot babe pinup art that we get on the rack (no pun intended) every Wednesday -- it's equal opportunity cheesecake. It's an appealing picture of two very attractive people making out, which makes it sexy in a much more inclusive way than a lot of imagery in comics. So I'm not sure where the basis for offense is, unless it's simply the raw sexuality of the image.
Which makes me wonder: what are some people are really getting upset about in these semi-regular controversies about cheesecake: the sexual exploitation of women, or just... sex?
Sunday, May 25, 2008
Making It Hot: OK in my book
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Laura Hudson
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7:34 PM
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13 comments:
Judd Winick has never written a Teen Titans comic. Most of his Outsiders stuff that he has written has leaned towards a Real World vibe.
I still think he's a pretty crappy writer, but it appears that his Titans book is an extension of that vibe using a cast that is mostly popular with an older set (even if does feature the cast from the Teen Titans books). This type of cover doesn't feel out of place with any of the type of stories a "trashy" winnick book would tell.
Can I just hate the cover cause it's bad art? Ian Churchill's anatomy sucks and it's just badly framed.
Well, he did do that Teen Titans East special last year, but your point is taken -- I meant Outsiders, not Teen Titans.
And hating on bad anatomy is a fine reason to hate a cover. I still think it's pretty, though.
Has there ever been any controversy over the cover art of a paperback romance novel? Isn't this pretty much the same kind of thing?
Maybe Ian Churchill should do a cover for Comic Foundry.
We use real people on our covers, not drawings.
Would that be more, or less offensive?
Kudos to you for taking a more nuanced and thoughtful approach to the issue. It's trendy to have a negative reaction to any images of sexuality in pop art simply by rote. Rather than the knee-jerk venom and bile, it makes more sense to think about what's being portrayed, why, and how it makes people feel.
My .02: Misogynistic cheescake and sexual images are not only NOT the same thing, they're complete opposites. We'd do well to at least separate the two.
I think you're onto something by suggesting that many comic book fans are opposed to genuinely sexual images, period. Some because they're paranoid that it's sexist and exploitative whether it is or not, some because they NEED their imagery to be sexist and exploitative because that's the only thing they understand.
Maybe it's like that aeon flux ep where they're giving each other little pieces of rolled-up paper. GEEZ
If comics fandom couldn't shrilly complain about something, they'd immediately disolve into a resentful puddle flesh-colored goo. Blaming Joe Quesada and Dan DiDio for their situation as they melted into their keyboard:
"Must... type... "DiDidiot"... one...last... time... gurgle."
While I simply couldn't defend some comics covers with scantily clad women with unrealistic anatomy I don't see anything wrong with two people (of any gender) snogging. When did kissing become pornographic??? And as Mark G noted a lot of romance covers - books aimed mostly at women - have far more lurid covers with scantily clad heroines and beefcake men topless.
A few years ago in Scotland there was an advertising campaign which had an incredibly fit athlete utterly naked, modesty protected by a dinner plate with a steak on it, with the motto 'tuck into a prime bit of Scottish beef'. Huge billboards had it towering over us, big, almost naked Scotsman, suggestive nudge-nudge, wink-wink hook line and yet did any groups come out and say oh this is shameful exploitation of the male body? Strangely enough, no... Hmmm, perhaps it is okay to have huge billboards of naked male models but not to have a couple of fantasy characters in a comic kissing.
Compare this to the Continent - I first went to the Netherlands in the 80s as a teenager and oh how my eyes did widen when I saw that on TV at 6 in the evening you would have a shampoo advert where there was no coy shooting the woman from behind, oh no, it was the whole body on show and gee, the Dutch didn't get upset about it, it was just a natural body, what was the problem? And since they have a lower sex crime and teen pregnancy rate than us I thought, hmmm, perhaps their more open views on sexuality might be better than our knee-jerk Victorian attitudes... Just a thought...
Instead of Ian Churchill, you should have real people reenact the cover on your next cover.
By my understanding, you've completely misrepresented what Val was saying.
She wasn't "objecting" to it in any political or social sense. She just said it was ugly and what was supposed to look enticing or erotic on this cover just looks gross to her (it wasn't to her taste). It looks like that to me too.
If I recall correctly, she said that because of the bizarre decision to draw tongue kissing, it reminded her of soft-core cable porn where they show a lot of heavy tongue work because they can't actually show uglies bumping.
In other words, she was criticizing execution, not subject matter or content.
I also hate it 'cause it's Kori/Nightwing. Snoozeville.
I think that for some it is sex itself, & they use "feminism" as a politically correct cover for their attitudes rather than look "prudish."
For some, it's any visual sexualization of a female character, in whatever form--possibly deriving from a form of heterosexual squick which is cliché in men but underrecognized in women. These are the women who will gladly consume M/M porn but hate seeing another woman in a sexualized form.
But for many, perhaps most, I think it's a resentment of the sexual portayal of a "hot" woman that they don't feel capable of measuring up to.
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